Winnipeg's transit operators warned the city Friday they would no longer be responsible for passengers' safety on overcrowded buses and streetcars.

Mayor Garnet Coulter told the city committee on street railway matters that top officials of the Street Railwaymen's Union had asked that the city investigate means of reducing overcrowding.

Immediate investigation by safety committee of the city's powers to control crowds on buses and streetcars was ordered by the committee.

E. Armstrong, general secretary of the Winnipeg Electric Company Employees Federated Council, told The Tribune today all 810 members of the Street Railwaymen's Union had decided some action should e taken to protect the drivers.

"We want a white line marked at the front of buses, trolley buses and streetcars. All passengers will have to stand behind this to give the drivers a clear view out the side doors," he said.

Mr. Armstrong said the operators were complaining that they had to rely on passengers for information on traffic.

he explained with a demarcation line, standing passengers would only be allowed behind it and waiting passengers would have to catch the next bus.

"This would give the driver clear vision at the front of his bus and allow him to make his own judgements regarding other traffic," said Mr. Armstrong.

"The men feel the present overcrowded buses aren't fair to them. They would be the ones penalized if involved in accidents. They maintain they have a responsible job where they shouldn't have to rely on second-hand information and work in tightly cramped conditions. It isn't safe. After all, the man loses his job if he is involved ii a bad accident," said Mr. Armstrong.

He pointed out demarcation of a "No Standing" area at the front of vehicles was common in other North American cities.

Mr. Armstrong said the union hadn't yet made up its mind what to do if the city took no action.

Police officials generally refused to comment today when asked whether overcrowded transit vehicles were dangerous but one said "Overcrowding, especially on buses, is not a good safety measure."

City Solicitor G. F. Bond, K. C., was unable to say offhand whether the city had any existing powers to control overloading of buses.

Mayor Garnet Coulter told committee Friday Mr. Armstrong and R. Siocombe, chairman of the W.E.C. Employee Federated Council, had told him the drivers were continually complaining present crowded conditions hampered their operations.

Ald. D. Mulligan thought the public was largely to blame for causing interference to the drivers.

"They just will not move to the back of the bus," he said.

Ald. M. J. Forkin said the Winnipeg Electric had instructed its drivers to clear standing persons from the front of the vehicles if they could not see out of the side windows.

"But the drivers never have time to enforce this ruling," he added.

"If the company were trying to compare with the number of vehicles it was putting on the streets the city would know what to do," said Ald. Mulligan. But Mr. Dahl (C. H. Dahl W.E.C. transportation manager) has informed us the company is putting every available vehicle on the street at rush hours."

Mr. Dahl said today the drivers' complaint was a "perennial problem."

"No specific rules are given drivers regarding overcrowding. They are left to be the judge. If they feel they are being hampered they have every right to keep people off the bus. it is a problem that varies greatly with routes. On some there are lots of turns and much cross-traffic, on others little," he added.